Unrelated rant *behind here lie opinions*

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 09/15/2020 at 12:20 • Filed to: Rants

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MAN, Some people I can’t stand, and when I don’t see them for a while and forget about them I think “do I really not like them? Am I giving them a fair shake?” then I see them again and 100% remember why.

There are 2 docs in my clinic, one of them is the one I go to, because the other is the person described in the first paragraph. He came in today for my services for a change and I was reminded again why I couldn’t possibly stand to go to this guy.

I understand that all the medical professionals aren’t all going to be on the same page, but to hear a primary care physician refer to the COVID situation with “the juice isn’t worth the squeeze” really rubs me the wrong way.

He was referring to the fact that the dangers aren’t worse than the precautions because he’s young and healthy. Specifically that he doesn’t see a problem with people who don’t bother with sensible precautions because this is a personal choice. This is a perfectly reasonable response...if you only care about you. If the only effect of this virus is personal then yes, chose your own destiny. Nothing wrong here...if the only person that matters to you is you and your choices either don’t affect others or you don’t care if they do.

It boggles the mind though that this is a person who is seeing and advising patients of all ages in a medical facility.

Know who thinks the juice is worth the squeeze? The people who need the juice to live. To take this analogy further, people who need the “juice” not getting it because the juice maker doesn’t want to go to the trouble is a major moral failing on the part of the juice maker.

While I understand that people have many legit reasons to dislike the current realities imposed by public health constraints, it doesn’t really change the fact that “public health” isn’t “personal health”.

It’s still technically a personal choice, to embrace public health, but it’s a choice that has an obvious moral weight. A “not my problem” attitude from a health professional regarding public health is a pretty shitty attitude. I’m not going to lie, I’m happy he lost his leadership role in the company...for whatever the reason was.

Feel free to disagree, this should be a safe place to talk about both sides of the issues. 2 rules that you should already know will be enforced here

1. Personal or character attacks from anyone to anyone will be dealt with.

2. No one has to “win” the argument. discuss but walk away if it’s clear that it’s turning ugly.

fintail > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 13:05

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Maybe he’s one of those wingnut “doctors” who came out in support of dear leader.   Does he wear a red hat with white lettering?

HammerheadFistpunch > fintail 09/15/2020 at 13:07

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He’s one of those doctors who doesn’t know the difference between his opinions and anything else.

He’s from a rural area in Utah so his hat collection is surely majority red.

As I’ve said before though, this is so much more than red/blue. This is simply “I don’t want it to be, so it isn’t”

VincentMalamute-Kim > fintail 09/15/2020 at 13:09

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Th e doctor discussed “demon semen”.

VincentMalamute-Kim > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 13:17

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I thought you were going to rant about people in million dollar expedition vehicles. Kinda agree because I’m jealous of the person who owns that MAN and believe they must be horrible, entitled rich people.

You have the reasonable, moral, and correct view. IMO.

I hear arguments that you can’t keep the economy shut down forever. Some people don’t understand that a little pain will help keep the economy open.

Kids won’t get much of the disease but will spread it to older, susceptible people. And then the economy has to go back to some degree of shutdown. Young people will keep this going for a lot longer than it needs to. The problem with people insisting schools reopen. They can but with intelligent planning.

It’s shouldn’t be a personal choice for public health, in the same way many laws for public health takes away personal liberties. Many hospitals require vaccinations as a condition for employment. Schools require vaccination.

And of course all the other laws taking away personal rights: red lights, pants in public places, no voting or guns for felons.

You’re only getting an echo chamber from me.

boredalways > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 13:28

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“ 1. Personal or character attacks from anyone to anyone will be dealt with.”

Does this include attacking the doctor?

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 13:32

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From a physician’s perspective, they see people all the time who refuse to take even the most basic steps (eat a well balanced diet, exercise, don’t consume poison... ) to improve their own health. Many of these same people would be at a much lower risk from dying of covid if they had spent their lives treating their personal health with more seriousness.

The juice clearly hasn’t been worth the squeeze for a huge proportion of Americans when dealing with their own health, so I don’t blame people for not feeling any obligation towards keeping them healthy (doctors obviously get paid to patch you up after the fact).

Public health infrastructure is a joke in the US, so it’s really up to the individual to protect themselves. I feel sorry for anyone that didn’t realize this until this year, but it’s been pretty obvious for a while now.

I feel for anyone that doesn’t have a support structure to help deal with all this craziness. I’ve been much more worried about me and mine’s mental health through all of this than our physical health. Thankfully I have a strong web of friends, family, motorcycles and cigars to keep me mostly on the up and up.

HammerheadFistpunch > boredalways 09/15/2020 at 13:35

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Opinions were given.

HammerheadFistpunch > DipodomysDeserti 09/15/2020 at 13:38

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I don’t think it’s too much to ask that physicians at least try. That is part of the job after all

“I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.”

You aren’t at all wrong that we fail at choosing our own best interests, but thats not really something that physicians can use as an excuse to not do their job.  They aren’t field medics, even if they want to be.

boredalways > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 13:51

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IMHO, you should tell him to his face that his behavior, language, and attitude makes you angry enough to “punch him in his throat”*. Explain to him that as a professional, his personal opinions in the workplace deserves at the very least a reprimand from the state medical board and you would be more than happy to contact them .

*obviously, your choice of emphasis. Or just omit it.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 14:34

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The public health issue is more complicated than usual as a person who doesn’t care about their own health can be spreading COVID to sensitive people without their knowledge. This is the key differentiation  for me. It doesn’t affect me if someone say smokes a pack a day but if they give my Dad COVID he is in a very high risk group for mortality due to COVID. This I do care about. 

HammerheadFistpunch > boredalways 09/15/2020 at 14:57

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I told him that his opinion doesn’t jibe with me, but given that this is just his opinion, and not what I know of how he chooses to practice, I can’t go much further than that.

boredalways > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 15:04

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Understood

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > HammerheadFistpunch 09/15/2020 at 16:41

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In every group and profession, you’ll always have at least a few people like this.

And I can’t say this surprises me given the US medical system is more about profit than it is about public health.

HammerheadFistpunch > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 09/15/2020 at 17:05

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some docs more than others. If I had to guess at the reason he’s back in family practice and out of his prior leadership role I would guess it was 1 part organizational changes, and 1 part “strategic misalignment”.

Our systems is aggressively moving towards a fee for value model

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2020 at 10:04

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I agree with what you are saying, though the fact that he expresses this opinion, is himself young and healthy, and regularly comes in contact with people from all different backgrounds, ages, and susceptibilities means he may unfortunately find out first-hand what the consequences of his actions are.

I have heard a disgusting num ber of people advocating for quarantining the entire at-risk population and letting the “normal” healthy people inherit the earth. So you have two option s then, a concentration camp or self quarantine. Self quarantining won’t work when you treat them like second class citizens and concentration camps would invariably be hot spots for death and disease where the virus can get at all the at risk population at once.

And little do they know that I am in fact significantly more at risk than most people my age. It is frankly offensive that they assume a them against us attitude when in fact the dividing line is nowhere near as obvious as that.